Wei Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A577-W345



Release Date: October 17, 2010



Topic: Liu Xiaobo's Nobel Peace Prize and its Influence in China -- Wei Jingsheng's Discussion with Voice of America's Host Jiang Tian, and Co-guest Gong Xiaoxia

标题: 刘晓波获诺贝尔和平奖及对中国的影响 -- 魏京生、龚晓夏参加美国之音“时事大家谈”叩应节目


Original Language Version: Chinese (English at beginning, Chinese version at the end)



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Liu Xiaobo's Nobel Peace Prize and its Influence in China

-- Wei Jingsheng's Discussion with Voice of America's Host Jiang Tian, and Co-guest Gong Xiaoxia



On October 11, 2010, Wei Jingsheng was invited to appear on Voice of America's "Issues and Opinions" TV/Radio/Internet Program hosted by Jiang Tian. During the one-hour long call-in program, Wei Jingsheng discussed in detail Liu Xiaobo's Nobel Peace Prize and its influence in China, along with another guest, Ms. Gong Xiaoxia.


The one-hour long video of this program can be viewed at VOA's website:


or by visiting:

http://www.weijingsheng.org/interviews/interviews2010/VOAinterviewWeiJS101011LiuXB1.mp4 and



The following was the main content of the program.


Jiang Tian: Will Liu Xiaobo's Nobel Peace Prize serve for what the Nobel Peace Committee hoped for, to promote democracy and human rights progress in the economically rising China? What kind of person is Liu Xiaobo? Today, we invite the well-known pro-democracy leader Wei Jingsheng and independent commentator Miss Gong Xiaoxia to explore these issues with us.


Jiang Tian: Wei Jingsheng, you are a pioneer of the democratic movement. You were in jail for many years and suffered a lot, what is your evaluation of Liu's win?


Wei Jingsheng:  The Chinese people look forward to the Nobel Peace Prize, so Liu's prize should encourage the Chinese people for the good.  You can see people are very excited and very happy, while the Chinese government is embarrassed.


Jiang Tian: Ms. Gong Xiaoxia, how do you see it?


Gong Xiaoxia: I certainly think this is a very good thing.  For nearly a decade, the world attention on China has mainly focused on its economic development.  In recent years, human rights have become less and less of an issue. Human rights are very important.  The Chinese government always said that the most important thing is economic development and that we have enough to eat, that human rights are less of an issue.  But the world is expressing a different view with this award: that we are all concerned, or paying more attention to human rights problems.  So I say that this award is significant.


Jiang Tian: Mr. Wei, I saw an article reported by the Agence France-Presse about your comment when talking about Liu Xiaobo's winning.  You said there were more qualified people than him.  What did you specifically say?


Wei Jingsheng: Actually, of course, a lot of people in China could be winners, but the Nobel Peace Prize cannot be given to all of them.  The Nobel Committee said before their announcement of the award that they hoped the prize will create a new situation, that the future of China has a new guide, with new things.  To present the prize to Liu Xiaobo could contain these ideas.  The Nobel Peace Committee, including many people in the international community, has received all sorts of criticism for lack of concern of Chinese democracy over all these years. They hope to find a moderate who could be accepted by the Chinese government to guide China's democracy in a more moderate direction. They have such intentions.


Jiang Tian: You mean that when they chose the object of their prize, they chose a relatively moderate person?


Wei Jingsheng: Yes, so to the Chinese government it is more acceptable. Otherwise, the Chinese government's negative repercussion would be relatively large. We have heard a lot of this kind of arguments in the past years.


Jiang Tian: What do you think the Chinese government's response is this time?  Is it relatively strong, or relatively low key?


Wei Jingsheng: I think it is not very strong, unusually not very strong.  For example, even a few days ago, the Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu said: We do not give them (the Nobel Peace Prize Committee) much pressure, we just say that this person is a criminal. In comparison to the past, this statement is relatively mild.


Jiang Tian: Dissidents living abroad have issued statements, including Wang Dan, Yang Jianli, and Hu Ping.  Wang Dan and Yang Jianli gave statements of support after the award. I did not see Hu Ping's afterwards. But I saw his article a couple of days before the award in "China Spring" where he said he hoped the award would be given to Liu.


Xiaoxia, I have a question:  the Nobel Peace Prize Committee talked about the Nobel Peace Prize being given to Liu Xiaobo for his promoting a non-violent struggle.  Why do they emphasize "non-violent"?  I think Wei Jingsheng and other democratic people have not advocated violence; how do you see it?


Gong Xiaoxia: I think there are two aspects. One is that the Peace Prize surely has a prerequisite of non-violence, although the award does not always follow this principle. In another aspect, I do not agree with what Wei said about Liu Xiaobo being relatively moderate.  The recent democratic changes in China are composed of wide a range of activities. Previously it was always focused on the issue of the one-party dictatorship. Now the democracy activities include rights-defending, labor, environmental protection, freedom of the press, and other aspects.  We can see that China has a lot of people in different areas to promote human rights improvements.  Liu Xiaobo is in one or several areas.  When a person advocates one area, he'll become very professional. This means that he is quite subject to local laws and rules.  Challenges to the Chinese government are often not because their laws are no good, but because they do not obey these laws. So in the eyes of many, a person acting under the legal framework seems more moderate. But in my opinion, they are not moderate. They work for a very revolutionary change, with moderate and non-violent means.


Jiang Tian: Mr. Wei, what do you think of Xiaoxia's statement?


Wei Jingsheng: That is her view.  She feels he is not moderate, but most people recognize that Liu Xiaobo etc. are moderate.  Even Liu himself felt he was moderate.  This can be tolerated.  Because you are active in China, you must make certain compromises with the regime.  Complete non-compromise would send you to prison quickly.  Of course there are people like Yang Tianshui who do not want to compromise at all, thus are considered to be more radical.


Liu has done something not good. Although the democratic movement has many different colors, and some are even more moderate, such as human rights lawyers - they have to make a lot of compromise with the courts, police, and local governments.  It is certain.  We all understand.  But you cannot go attack people because they are more radical. Why has Liu's Nobel Peace Prize received very strong negative repercussions from many people? This compromise is the main reason.  I have been speaking relatively moderately. What some others said are really unpleasant to hear.  But those harsh words are not all right.  You can criticize Liu's evaluation of the radical activists, such as Gao Zhisheng, but you should not attack Liu's personality.  Attack on a person's personality is a little too much.


Jiang Tian: Just how many people have strong negative repercussions? Who are they?


Wei Jingsheng: a lot. I am paying attention these days to see the rebound on the Internet, including views from inside China.


Jiang Tian: You said Liu Xiaobo attacked others, such as Gao Zhisheng.  What did he say?


Wei Jingsheng: We all know his attitude against Gao.  When people were calling for Gao's release, Liu Xiaobo was not for it. His very good friends did some very bad things on their own website, mocking Gao, etc.  Of course he himself did not mock Gao.   But this caused a lot of resentment. We have been accepting and tolerating all sorts of pro-democracy movement, but what they did makes people disgusted.


Jiang Tian: Xiaoxia, have you heard of Liu's such conduct?


Gong Xiaoxia: Mr. Wei knows that I have not been very involved in these internal things these years. But we are all friends. I did hear a few. But the important point is that this award is not to Liu Xiaobo, an individual, nor to recognize his personal moral conduct.  I have known Mr. Wei for so many years as a friend, we all know that no one is perfect, everyone has some personal problems. Most fundamentally, this award is given to someone serving a sentence in prison in China.  This has a very symbolic meaning. we should pay attention to this, instead of how he did not get along with whoever, or the conflict, or what did he do, etc.  I think that is not that important. In fact, history is such a thing.  After some time, we all forget.  We might have a fight against each other, but we have driven the world to go so far.  Look at China, it has gone so far in the past a few decades.  Why? This has a lot to do with people like Wei Jingsheng's push forward.  We may have had different opinions back then.  But now, everyone does not think it was a problem when Wei Jingsheng called for "the Fifth Modernization".  Coming this far, it is inseparable from our pushing forward. We should look at this.


Jiang Tian: Liu Xiaobo was arrested and sentenced mainly due to the drafting of the "Charter 08", which was released on December 8, 2008. Which kind of document is this "Charter 08"?  How much involvement did Liu Xiaobo have in drafting this "Charter 08"?  After Liu was arrested, we interviewed the famous Sino-expert of Princeton University, Professor Perry Link.  Professor Link had given a lot of opinions during the drafting of the "Charter 08".  Lin Sen of the Voice of America interview him. We are now re-broadcasting this interview, to see what Perry Link had said.


Gong Xiaoxia:  Perry Link knows the inside story.


[Play recording:

Perry Link: It is an abstract document.  It did not take any action, nor does it explain how to achieve the ideal China from the current China. It only writes out an abstract ideal. But I would not say that it is only a symbolic writing. These relatively abstract wordings of idealism have their real terms. About this Charter 08, our understanding is that it is not asking the above, that the policy makers of the Communist Party make some changes, but it is a conversation between the citizens.  As for when this ideal can be achieved and how to achieve it, this Charter 08 did not write. It simply means that we seek common ground in big principles in an effort to reach a mutual understanding despite differences in between citizens.]


Jiang Tian: In addition to "Charter 08", the reporter also asked why did the Chinese government arrest Liu Xiaobo, because "Charter 08" itself does not mention overthrowing the Communist Party.  Professor Link answered this way:


[Play recording:

Perry Link: The question is why choose Liu as an example? As the target of the arrest? You're right, what Liu said many before were approved by the Chinese authorities.  Here, the authority also has its strategy: it put a dissident out, saying: look we allow him to criticize us, which shows our tolerance.  This may be its idea.  Now it arrests him as an example. I see it in the old way - warning the monkeys by killing the chickens.  Probably because Liu is relatively better known, so it chose to arrest him, to make him an example to frighten others.  But on the other hand, you better ask the Communist Party this question, I can only speculate.]


Jiang Tian: today's discussion topic is: the significance of the Liu Xiaobo award.  Our honored guests participating in the studio are Mr. Wei Jingsheng, the democracy leader, and Ms. Gong Xiaoxia, an independent commentator.

  __  __  __


Lin of Anhui Province: Greetings to Teacher Wei and Teacher Gong. I think that for decades now, Liu Xiaobo would not give up his Chinese citizenship.  He as a Chinese national continues the democracy movement in the Mainland.  Mr. Liu is a solid patriots. Chinese democracy relies on people like Mr. Liu to be truly realized.  We must understand the nature and reality of China. Wang Bingzhang and Gao Zhisheng also had heroic deeds.  But to face the reality of China, Liu Xiaobo's moderate way, dropping water could etch stones, is perhaps more threatening to the Chinese Communists. I call upon fellow Chinese to unite, to take Mr. Liu's Nobel Peace Prize as another climax of our Chinese democracy movement.


Cao of Fujian Province: I heard Liu Xiaobo won the Nobel Peace Prize on October 8. I am very excited and very happy.  I feel that Liu's sentence is what only an authoritarian government would do.  I have read some articles.  Mr. Liu often revealed what the authoritarian government does, and criticized the government, and hoped the government would carry out political reforms.  I agree with his criticisms.  From a scientific point of view, communism is pseudo-science, it is a destruction of human nature and is perverse. In economics, it is a violation of the people's normal business activities.


Jiang Tian: We have talked about how Liu Xiaobo has a more moderate political stand. What are your political views, Mr. Wei, and what is the difference?


Wei Jingsheng: Since 1979, my view has always been that we must have a non-compromised struggle with the Communist Party system, to create pressure, to force it to make some changes. Liu's main stand is not "Charter 08." What he has been promoting is to have a "positive interaction" with the government, to make compromise, and "the Communist Party is not our enemy." We can understand what he said, because he has had to live since he is in China. However, many people in China would not say so. Many people in China know that the Communist Party is the root cause of their suffering. When Liu talks about compromise and cooperation with the Communist Party, many people do not agree with him. In this regard, he and we have a lot of difference. This is the main reason that people regard us as radicals, while think him as a moderate.


Jiang Tian: You said to apply pressure to the Chinese Communist Party. But the Communist Party controls the army, and they always quote the idea of Mao Zedong, that political power comes from the barrel of a gun, and the gun also protects the regime. They control the tools like the army and the police. Do you think pressure will be effective?


Wei Jingsheng: Of course there are considerations of many interests, including concern for their own future.  Nowadays, the ordinary Chinese have more and more intense feelings against the regime.  Many communists think that people will sooner or later be forced to rebel if there is no political reform. So, many people within the Party urge for reform.  This situation is the case under pressure, including the international pressure that causes a lot of worries to the Communist Party.  The Chinese Communists had to make some changes. For example, putting me in exile to the United States.  They were very unwilling to do so, yet they had to. The Chinese people's pressure and international pressure all have very practical functions and can make changes.  That people within the Communist Party demand change is also out of such pressure, instead of their own willingness. If they are able to enjoy all the rights and benefits as they wish, why would they want change?


Jiang Tian: Xiaoxia, do you think Liu's ideas would work? Make sense?


Gong Xiaoxia: This is not an issue of proposition. We may have many different ideas. The most daring thing about Liu's "Charter 08" is to unite people as an organization.  China's current problem is not lack of ideas.  Ideas abound.  Instead, there is a lack of a system for China to have a real opposition party, so that different views have a place for expression. "Charter 08" made the first step towards the opposition.  Why is it that some people speaking very intensely inside the Communist Party are all right, yet they pick Liu to arrest? Liu made the organization for action.  Even if you just organize a conference chatting nonsense it is not allowed. This is an organized action. So dissent is one thing, whether organized in the form is another thing, this is the main reason for Liu to be arrested.


Jiang Tian: You mean organized action is what the Communist Party is most afraid of?


Wei Jingsheng: Yes. Falun Gong practitioners only practice Falun Gong.  They did not talk about politics at all, yet were arrested.  So, forming an organization is indeed an important reason that Liu Xiaobo got arrested.  Liu's friends were surprised, asking if Liu Xiaobo is so moderate and what he wrote even got approval from the Communist authorities, how he could be arrested?  It seems he was very wrongfully treated.  But in fact, as Xiaoxia made the point, regardless how moderate you are, when you form an organization with some people around and appear as if you want to do something, the Communist Party will not allow it.


Jiang Tian:  You just mentioned to apply pressure to the Chinese Communist Party. Then is signing the "Charter 08" itself a form of pressure?


Wei Jingsheng: According to the Western point of view, this is a normal expression of the people.  But by the dictionary of the Communist Party, this is counter-revolutionary organization.  What Xiaoxia said is the key: Signing "Charter 08", engaging in group practice, forming websites, makes the Communist Party think that he had crossed the line.


Gong Xiaoxia:  Now there is a problem.  Now is the era of the information revolution. Regardless how moderate a charter is, using it as a foundation could link many people through the Internet. This really is the pressure and threat to the Communist Party.


Wei Jingsheng: So Liu Xiaobo's arrest itself also illustrates that even as he wanted to "make positive interaction" with the Communist Party, this road leads nowhere.  When he was arrested, people were saying: You see, he said to "make positive interaction" with the Communist Party, carried it out in action even to the degree of severe criticism even gibing the other dissidents; you can say that he made a lot of compromises with the Communist Party, but it still did not work. If you want to form an organization, then the Communist Party is very intelligent, it will not let you form it.


Jiang Tian: not only organizing, even gathering with a few people is not allowed.


Wei Jingsheng: Not even allowed if you practice Qi Gong. Finally, Falun Gong was driven to revolt, Quitting the Chinese Communist Party, and the Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party, etc. Falun Gong itself said this is not political, but it was forced to be anti-communist.  As a matter of fact, this is the case for the majority of Chinese. They are forced to the corner by the Communist Party.

  __  __  __


Jiang Tian: I received several e-mails, some of them sent their greetings to you. "We support the democracy advocator Liu Xiaobo winning the Nobel. We appeal to overseas pro-democracy leaders to remain united."


Wei Jingsheng: In fact, many points of view between Xiaoxia and me are different, but we are still friends.


Gong Xiaoxia: He loves the food I cooked.  That is the reason.


Wei Jingsheng: Unity is unity, but the important points cannot be unprincipled.  In fighting against the Communist Party, the pressure is very important.  We hope to have some people come forward in direct contact with the Communist Party using negotiation and compromise.  But, they should not cross the line.  Otherwise, even after all the compromises and they would be still arrested like Liu Xiaobo. Then what is the purpose?  Some people's struggle, including Yang Jia who killed police, are events with a great impact on the Communist Party.  They are afraid that people will rebel if the situation continues.  After rebellion, the case will not be the same.  The Communists may have a lot of money now, but what would happen after people revolt?  So, there is a lot of pressure within the Communist Party.


I never opposed the spontaneous resistance of the people, although I have always had peaceful struggle myself.  I hope China will have a peaceful evolution.  We are now working for this.  We apply pressure to the Communists for this purpose.  But, when people rise up against suppression, you must stand with the people, not condemn the people.  Liu Xiaobo's group did not do well on this and thus received a lot of opposition from many people.


Jiang Tian: Did they condemn the people for that?


Wei Jingsheng: They called Yang Jia a fascist (Yu Jie said it, but people consider them in the same group.) What Liu said was also unpleasant to hear; he called it "primitive justice" that is not justice. In short, he criticized it which is in conflict with people's emotions.


Gong Xiaoxia: Not necessarily. I think Yu Jie and Liu Xiaobo are relatively independent persons, not of a political party.  One does not represent the other.  Liu Xiaobo and I are about the same age, the same generation.  I can feel Liu Xiaobo's fear of that kind of mass movement without order, which I understand.  They only speak for themselves and do not represent the others.  Therefore, regarding unity within the democratic movement, I think that the democracy movement itself is democratic.  It is not unified, does not need to have all agree.  Disagreement is a very normal thing.

  __  __  __


Zhang of Hunan Province:  Greetings to Mr. Wei and Ms. Gong.  I am very happy to learn that Liu got the award, it is a great encouragement to the Chinese democracy movement.  The Nobel Peace Prize is a world-class award, instead of an ordinary award.  So people will all ask about why this person won the Nobel Prize; they will pay attention to "Charter 08", and be concerned about China and the redress of the 1989 Tiananmen democracy movement.  I hope the Chinese government can treat this reasonably and release Liu Xiaobo as soon as possible.


Wang of Hunan Province:  A democratic Charter is a very urgent matter for China. This pursuit has more than one hundreds of history, starting from Sun Yat-sen.  Today, I do not know why the Chinese authorities imprisoned Liu Xiaobo. Liu's charter has a framework that includes the Communist Party. It does not propose to overthrow the Communist Party, and at least literally withstands scrutiny.  If they were even against this, then the Communists would not win back then. If you do not even have democracy, who would fellow you? After sixty years of revolution, the Communist Party had big failings, such as the Cultural Revolution.  Why was that? Exactly because it lacked democracy as the fundamental thing. Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto was much more fierce than Liu Xiaobo's, but in Europe more than one hundred years ago, he was free without being imprisoned.  So I think the award to Liu Xiaobo is a good timing with the right knowledge of the committee.  We recognize China's progress, but the Chinese government is wrong to exchange its heart with the North Korea's dictator.


Lu of Hubei Province:  I have my opinion to Mr. Wei.  Mr. Wei said that Liu had these problems, but I see from the comments of Liu Xiaobo that he is a man of not simple personality.  I think it is appropriate for him to get this award. The Chinese people need a mainstream, a representative of mainstream of heavyweights to influence China.  I hope that Mr. Wei will put aside the divergence and unite together, which will tell the Chinese how to unite, not to be loose sand. Today I heard the Chinese media say that the West is now using the Nobel Prize as a tool. I do not know if you heard it or not.


Jiang Tian: I would like to ask a question:  Liu Xiaobo said to have positive interaction with the Chinese government.  Were those Liu's exact words?


Wei:  Basically the original words。  Further, after he went to prison, he even said "no enemies", "heart-warming prison management," which is very different from what others felt.  Perhaps he received better treatment.  But he should know that other pro-democracy activists and others people including rights defenders and ordinary people suffered miserably in the prisons. Look at those people petitioning, they were very badly treated by the police.  Liu paid attention to these every day and should know. So he should not praise the “heart-warming prison management”.  This statement made us pretty disgusted.


Mr. Lu of Hubei said that we should unite.  In fact, it is hard to say if we are able to unite together.  If we seek the common ground while keep our differences, then it is OK. Over the years, I have had different views from Liu Xiaobo and his group.  He knows that I have often criticized him, but he also knows very well of our unity.  When he had troubles, we appealed for him.  After Liu was arrested and sentenced, there was not much attention in the U.S. press.  I wrote articles published in the New York Times, the International Herald Tribune, the Los Angeles Times, Christian Science Monitor, Le Monde, Der Welt, etc.  The so-called unity is that we help each other, but it does not mean that we should intervene impartially in disagreement.  I think Liu's view is wrong, his own arrest itself proves his point is wrong.  The Communist Party which wants to block our road to democracy will not easily make compromises.  We must seek unity in the struggle, instead of unity under the premise of a compromise.


Jiang Tian: you advocate pressure on the Communist Party to push them for political reform. So your ultimate goal is to abandon the Communist Party, to overthrow the Communist Party, to establish a system of multi-party competition, or to push for democracy within the communist system?


Wei Jingsheng: In this regard, Liu Xiaobo and I have the same view -- to be outside of the Communist system. In 1989, there was the struggle within the Communist system, it finally had the great setback after so many years of effort because of Zhao Ziyang. In China and abroad, this viewpoint is consistent: to have an opposition party outside the Communist system. This is very important. Xiaoxia may understand this even deeper, she is now campaigning in the United States.


Gong Xiaoxia: I agree with Old Wei's view. To say realizing democracy within the Communist system, this is in itself very absurd. A system itself regulates not allowed to be outside of the system. Not allowed to be outside of the system, how can you have democracy? So, to have change, we must change the system. If we have to change you the system, how could we change within the system? This is impossible. In this regard, Democrats have a consensus. If someone within the system want to change, which would be good. But not because that there is this intention within the system, then we do not want to change from outside the system. These people who emphasize the change within the system do not recognize the change from outside.  But these people who recognize changes from outside, would recognize changes within. This is a big difference.


Wei Jingsheng: Speaking of compromise, some would say, Old Wei you are wrong for struggling without compromises. Actually it is no. If the pressure reached to a certain degree, like what was with the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, there could be someone within the Communist Party jump out asking for peaceful evolution, to have evolution regardless whatever means. By then, we will stand together with the democrats within the Communist Party, and would not say no compromise. However, while the Communist Party is not changing, keeping continuously give concessions to the Communists is equal to ease the burden and reduce the pressure for the Communist Party. Therefore, we are very worried about this.


Jiang Tian: So your big goal is the same.


Wei Jingsheng: Of course.

  __  __  __


Feng of Beijing: I am very glad to see Mr. Wei. I have two separate questions for you two. Mr. Wei is a pioneer of the Chinese democracy movement in China and was in jail for many years. During the time you were in jail and later during a very long time, you did not receive the Nobel Prize. But today, Liu Xiaobo got it. I want to know how you look at Liu's award and whether it has something to do with the current international and domestic situation?


Ms. Gong Xiaoxia, I want to ask a question: You mentioned the problems within and outside of the system. if the Communist Party appeared to be several factions, and evenly matched, and can hold democratic elections within the party, does this equivalent to the West such as the United States' Democratic and Republican camps?


Wei Jingsheng: I'm interested to answer Xiaoxia's question. American Party can split. If you can split, of course, is a good thing. We do not have to make that opposition party.  When the Communist Party split and produce an opposition party, it would be very good.


Gong Xiaoxia: You can not answer that for me. I have participated some American politics. The difference between the two parties in the US, the relationship between them, are not like that tense as China within two different factions (of the Communist Party), that when they see each other, they would pull out their knives to stab. That is because we agree with the basic principles of democracy and respect for others. If the Communist Party could be split into several factions, and if they can be totally different in principle, in response to social development, and in organizational forms, then it is not a Communist Party, but several different parties. So I think, whether it is one party, two parties (such as Japan is a party, several factions), the most basic question is how you look at the future of the society. Do you agree that some very basic values of society, including human rights, government authority comes from the people, these sorts of basic principles.


Wei Jingsheng: I answer that question as why I did not win Nobel. From 1992, I got nominated. But the Communist Party's pressure has been great, at that time the international trend is to support the people against the Chinese Communist Party. But now with more and more closer economic and trade relations, Westerners feel more and more dependent on China. Now the trend of the world is more agreeable to Liu Xiaobo's policy of peaceful compromises. They think that they can reach a more democratic system through negotiation, like South Africa.


Gong Xiaoxia: I am here to add answer: back then when Wei Jingsheng was nominated for Nobel, it illustrated Wei as a symbol for democracy. This is very important. At that time, many countries are not democratic, and many other issues occupy a significant position. Recently years, on one side, there is this economic reform in China, while on the other side, China emphasizes its national strength, put human rights as secondary. By give Nobel Prize to Liu Xiaobo, who is serving a sentence, the world is telling the importance of human rights in China. In fact, this award also includes Wei Jingsheng. Because Wei is a pioneer. (Wei Jingsheng: No, no, too much.) So this award is for everyone, and Liu Xiaobo is just a symbol.


Wei Jingsheng: at least part of the Westerners' view has changed, they think that the Communist Party does not have to be overthrown, instead they wish to altered the Communist regime peacefully. Make it short, they hope that China is relatively stable, in order to ensure their business interests. This is the mainstream of Western thought. U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton expressed that: human rights are not our main issue. This releases a very clear signal -- from the perspective of business interests, the concept of human rights to the Chinese has changed.


Jiang Tian: Xiaoxia, do you agree with Wei's statement?


Gong Xiaoxia: this topic are a bit long. I should say that I do not agree with the statement. There are always the interests of business, but for human rights, the people, how to manage the country, these are the very basic values of the West. Maybe some politicians who will say: we can reach some agreement, to bring benefits for some interest groups. But I think the very basic values of the West are forever, and will not change.


Wei Jingsheng: This is the real important reason for these Western officials to talk about human right, although they want to make compromises with the Chinese government. What Xiaoxia said is: the politicians could not shake the basic concepts of people in the Western society. However, political manipulation is there, such as people criticize that the big businesses companies manipulating American politics more than people. Although this saying maybe a little too much, but basically true. The subtle change of the US attitude toward human rights in China, America's increased compromise to the Chinese government, all illustrate the more and more influence from the business interests.


Gong Xiaoxia: We could discuss this later. I am involved in American politics. I really do not think that Western politics is dominated by large enterprises.


Jiang Tian: Mr. Wei was talking about the West hopes for democratic reforms under the Communist rule, is this the goal for the West?


Gong Xiaoxia: I do not think that is the goal, but a reality they have to hold their noses to accept.


Jiang Tian: that is to accept the reality of Communist rule, and to promote reform within this frame.


Wei Jingsheng: politicians have a very difficult choice: whenever talk about China, people are most concerned about China's human rights; but these who fund these politicians are most concerned about not to affect their business. Thus this is a huge contradiction.



(Transcribed and translated by the Wei Jingsheng Foundation.)



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Wei Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A577-W345



Release Date: October 17, 2010



Topic: Liu Xiaobo's Nobel Peace Prize and its Influence in China -- Wei Jingsheng's Discussion with Voice of America's Host Jiang Tian, and Co-guest Gong Xiaoxia

标题: 刘晓波获诺贝尔和平奖及对中国的影响 -- 魏京生、龚晓夏参加美国之音“时事大家谈”叩应节目


Original Language Version: Chinese (English at beginning, Chinese version at the end)









-- 魏京生、龚晓夏参加美国之音“时事大家谈”叩应节目






The one-hour long video of this program can be viewed at VOA's website:



http://www.weijingsheng.org/interviews/interviews2010/VOAinterviewWeiJS101011LiuXB1.mp4 和http://www.weijingsheng.org/interviews/interviews2010/VOAinterviewWeiJS101011LiuXB2.mp4





























































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欢迎投稿(暂无稿费)或批评建议,请寄信箱:  HCP@WEIJINGSHENG.ORG



Wei Jingsheng Foundation, P. O. Box 15449, Washington, DC 20003, USA

电话: 1-202-543-1538 传真:1-202-543-1539






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