Wei
Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A709-W446
魏京生基金会新闻与文章发布号： A709-W446
Release
Date: May 13, 2012
发布日：2012年5月13日
Topic:
Biography and Transcripts of Wei Jingsheng in His Video Interviews Featured at
the Freedom Collection at the George W. Bush Presidential Center
标题：小布什总统中心的自由汇集里有关魏京生的传记及访谈录像的文字记录
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Language Version: English (Chinese version at the end)
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Biography
and Transcripts of Wei Jingsheng in His Video Interviews Featured at the
Freedom Collection at the George W. Bush Presidential Center
The
video interview of Wei Jingsheng featured at the Freedom Collection at the
George W. Bush Presidential Center is available online at:
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/
Related
interviews are as following:
1.
Wei Jingsheng on establishing opposition:
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=632
2.
Wei Jingsheng on the Tiananmen Massacre:
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=631
3.
Wei Jingsheng on Deng Xiaoping and Economic Development:
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=629
4.
Wei Jingsheng on Communist Government's Torture Techniques:
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=630
5.
Wei Jingsheng on the Fifth Modernization: Democracy:
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=628
6.
Wei Jingsheng on China and Capitalism:
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=627
__ __ __
The
Following is the biography of Wei Jingsheng featured at the Freedom Collection
at the George W. Bush Presidential Center:
Wei
Jingsheng was a prisoner of conscience in China for more than 18 years. Born in
1950 to parents who were Communist Party members, Wei served in the People's
Liberation Army and worked in the countryside during the Cultural Revolution.
In
1978, he wrote an essay called "The Fifth Modernization: Democracy"
and posted it in a place that had come to be called Democracy Wall. Unlike most
pro-freedom authors in China during that time, Wei signed his name to "The
Fifth Modernization," which was a direct challenge to the Beijing
government's strategy of instituting economic reforms while continuing to
suppress political dissent. Wei soon was arrested on the charge of being
"counter-revolutionary" and served more than 18 years in prison,
including several years in forced labor camps and eight years on death row.
By
the mid-90s, Wei was China's best-known political prisoner. There was strong
international pressure for his release and, in 1997, he was allowed to go
overseas for medical treatment. He now lives in the United States and heads the
Overseas Chinese Democratic Coalition.
__ __ __
Video
1: The following is web address of the video and the transcript of Wei
Jingsheng's interview about establishing opposition:
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=632
In
order to establish a democratic system in one's own country, the most important
thing is not to overthrow the government, but to establish an opposition party.
Even
with the Communist Party in power, whenever there is a real opposition party
and opposition faction in place, a real opposition party and opposition
faction, democracy in this country would begin.
__ __ __
Video
2: The following is web address of the video and the transcript of Wei
Jingsheng's interview about the Tiananmen Massacre:
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=631
So
you see during the suppression of 1989, Deng in fact met with tremendous
resistance within the army. It was not like what the outside world believed,
that Deng Xiaoping was master to and in control to the military. In fact, the
different opinions in the army were very strong. Nevertheless, Deng Xiaoping
overcame the opposition and eventually, after two to three months, he had the
military under his control. Utilizing his control over the military, he
suppressed the strong request from the people and its peaceful evolution.
The
ordinary people may not have fully noticed that the 1989 movement caused such
an upheaval within the Communist Party. That was because the rejection was not
only coming from the ordinary people, but also from the majority within the
Communist Party. So that movement had become so intense and so extensive; it
was all the people, from both outside and inside the Party, who were opposing
this kind of policy of Deng Xiaoping's.
The
reason why Deng Xiaoping could win the difficult battle was due to the gradual
formation of an interest group in 1980s that consisted of high-ranking
officials and their offspring. This interest group was definitely supporting
him. So finally he won by a narrow margin. Then after 1989 China's policy, and
the policy of the Communist Party, was becoming even more dependent on this new
bureaucrat capitalist class.
__ __ __
Video
3: The following is web address of the video and the transcript of Wei
Jingsheng's interview about Deng Xiaoping and Economic Development:
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=629
I think
that Chinese people's resistance to the Communist Party's rule started at the
very beginning when the communists took power. It started from the early 1950s.
But this kind of resistance would be from the standpoint of maintaining the
Communist Party, like it should be all right as long as some reforms are put in
place.
Before
the Democracy Wall in 1978, there were few people who proposed ending the
Communist Party system. But only with a termination of the one-party regime of
the Communist Party could China become good. The resistance had started
shifting toward requesting a change from the Communist Party system, and this
started from the Democracy Wall in 1978.
When
we posted our opinions on the Democracy Wall, we were attacked by many people
around the Democracy Wall. But the ordinary people enjoyed reading them. Many
people were standing around and those posted opinions were widely spread.
So,
at that time, most of the general public did not even think about overturning
the Communist Party; however, a very few people thought about it and were
frightened to speak out. But we spoke out at the Democracy Wall and made a
public promotion and printed out some handouts and distributed them. This
caused tremendous reactions in the mindset of the Chinese people.
So,
after I was incarcerated and since the early 1980s, the opinions of demanding
democracy in China, actually demanding a termination of the one-party rule of
the Communist Party, spread rapidly. The whole 1980s became the biggest enemy
of the Communist Party. Even people within the Communist Party stood up and
said that China should take a democratic path and liberation, which were the
main ideas that Deng Xiaoping hoped to suppress.
Soon
the thoughts of democratization started brewing in Chinese society and getting
more and more mature and growing broader. It was no longer limited to the legal
system area. The entire society had started requesting democracy, in terms of
freedom of speech and in terms of all aspects of the system. The people were
demanding more openness, and also an open economy.
At
this point, Deng Xiaoping on the one hand had to accept economic liberation in
the society; however, in the political arena he thought he could maintain
control. So he initiated some movements in an opposite direction, for example
the Anti-bourgeois Liberalization Campaign, which was a very furious struggle
during the entire 1980s.
On
the one hand, the society was demanding liberation; on the other hand, Deng
Xiaoping was continually launching this kind of campaign to oppose the
liberation. The struggle was getting more and more intense, and it lasted until
the end of the 1980s.
In
fact, Deng Xiaoping's approach of being open in the economy but definitely not
open in the political area was formed gradually in the 1980s. At the beginning
he did not understand, like many others, how China eventually was going to
move. But soon he realized that without economic reform the Chinese economy
would fall apart, and the Chinese people would no longer bear it and would
force the communists to step down.
However,
if he opened up politically and gave people freedom, the one-party rule of the
Communist Party could no longer be sustained. He was very aware of this
quandary in his mind. The growing conflict with the request for democracy from
the society erupted in 1989. The conflict was also very intense within the
Party; that's why we saw the June Fourth Movement.
So
he found in the economic area he could let things open up and develop, not only
by allowing the Chinese people to develop the economy, but also attracting
foreigners to come to China to help accelerate economic development. He thought
as long as the economy's developing well, and I let people get sufficient food,
let people earn a sufficient amount of money, then the people wouldn't rebel.
This was his basic idea.
Deng
Xiaoping thought - if the economy developed, then the Western people would
believe there would also be democracy since their economy was developing. He
developed this thought through the 1980s. But Deng Xiaoping also had thought
about how to maintain a one-party dictatorship after economic development. The
method was reflected in his famous statement, "Let some people get rich
first," or more specifically, let his kinsfolk get rich first.
If
all the money is within the hands of their associates, then even with the
development of a capitalist economy the Communist Party could still politically
maintain a one-party dictatorship. He believed this so-called democracy was mastered
in the hands of the capitalists; if the new capitalists were still part of our
Communist Party members, then the power would still definitely remain in the
hands of the Communist Party.
__ __ __
Video
4: The following is web address of the video and the transcript of Wei
Jingsheng's interview about Communist Government's Torture Techniques:
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=630
I
know in prison, for example, there were many people who were incarcerated in
isolation. After a long period of time you would be driven crazy. Then under
such circumstances many people might have surrendered. Another thing was to
impose lots of -- oh, to make you feel very distressful. Of course it was not
like whipping you with a lash, but, for example, if you went on a hunger
strike, they would say they were humanitarian and then they tortured you, using
various methods to torture you. There were many people who surrendered under
this kind of circumstance.
Of
course there were people who surrendered because of missing family members, et
cetera. In various circumstances, while in prison many people succumbed. But in
each case, they made it unendurable, beyond what a human being could possibly
bear. These were the techniques that were widely used in the prisons of the
Communist Party.
We
political prisoners all had a big problem, even those arrested political
prisoners who had previously been members of the Communist Party. They put you
in a very small environment, absolutely quiet, nobody was allowed to talk to
you, nobody was allowed to contact you either. You could not hear a single
voice from the outside world. In this kind of circumstances, after a period of
half a year to two years time, people's brains would start having problems;
they'd become insane.
We
found many political prisoners who were incarcerated, including non-Communist
Party people and previous Communist Party members, had problems after they were
released from the prison. Sometimes because of this the other people would
think they are insane and condemn them. But I feel, I know that was because of
the torture of the long lasting isolation in prison, which caused these people
to develop problems in their minds.
__ __ __
Video
5: The following is web address of the video and the transcript of Wei
Jingsheng's interview about the Fifth Modernization: Democracy:
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=628
This
should be traced back to 30 years ago, year 1978, 1979. At that time, China was
in a changing time. Soon after Mao Zedong's death, Mao Zedong's wife was
arrested. And Deng Xiaoping had not come back to office. China was changing.
Most people believed that it is better to follow the Communist Party and
maintain the tyrant regime.
But
our young people - I was very young then - our young people thought China
should learn Western democracy. Only with Western democracy, all aspects in
China - culture and economy - can expect to achieve normal developments. So at
that time I posted some Dazibao ("big-character posters") on the
Democracy Wall. One of the most famous ones was The Fifth Modernization
Democracy.
We
advocated that China should take a democratic course. Immediately it received
support from the ordinary people. So the Communist Party arrested me.
In
the decade since the Cultural Revolution, we young people felt distressed
because we meant to reform this society out of good intentions. But the more
reforming there was, the worse it became. The life of the general population
was very difficult.
So
we gradually discovered the Western democratic system was good, especially the
American democratic system, which the people envied very much then. After some
preliminary studies, we figured that China, only with democratization, and
implementing democracy through political system reform, can China march on the
normal track in all aspects, and get rid of poverty. This was what people were
thinking then.
As
a matter of fact, the main purpose of the article was to reveal the disasters
created by the Communist Party and to awaken the general public. Actually at
that time our own knowledge of Western democracy was not much, but we could see
its outcome is very good. The general population lives a very good life, which
was all the general population needed to see.
Because
at the very beginning the Communist Party had a set of communist ideals and
used this to attract the people. Many young people joined the Communist Party,
so the Communist Party could take power. But after the Communist Party took
power, it continuously brought in many disasters.
People
do not believe in communism as much. So in early 1970s, Mao Zedong and Zhou
Enlai [top aide to Mao Zedong and prime minister] announced the Four
Modernizations, which are industry, agriculture, national defense and science,
and technology. They used the four aspects as a dream to attract the people.
So
I proposed The Fifth Modernization Democracy. What I meant was, without the
fifth modernization, without democracy, all the other modernizations could not
possibly be achieved. Even though modernization is occurring, there would be no
benefit to the general people.
Well,
I am thinking it was kind of related the education I received when I was young.
My father's generations were among those people who sacrificed their life for
this country and engaged in the revolution for the dream and for the good of
China.
Then,
despite the fact their dreams were different from ours, this kind of spirit
passed down to us. We don't just want a good life for ourselves alone. We felt
it intolerable to see other people living a difficult life. That was why I
eventually selected this path.
__ __ __
Video
6: The following is web address of the video and the transcript of Wei
Jingsheng's interview about China and Capitalism:
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=627
Since
1990s, you could see Deng Xiaoping's policy had a more pronounced character,
which was more open to big foreign enterprises, more open to the big investment
of Hong Kong, Taiwan and Western countries. Why so? Because he found out in the
year 1989 that the pressure imposed by international society, especially the
international society led by the United States, was not that great. That was
one of the important conditions that allowed him to overcome the opposition.
In
the two decades since 1989, the policies of the Communist Party have become
more and more clear, which is to say, what they rely on has not really been the
poor people of China, nor the so-called political left worldwide. What they really
rely on has been international capitalism, including the capitalist class in
China and in the Western world. Deng Xiaoping found out that as long as he gave
them the opportunity to make money, they would definitely support the
government.
In
fact, they learned a lesson in 1989 - why the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe
collapsed so quickly. They collapsed because they did not receive support from
Western capitalists. The entire Western world had been opposing them, had been
continuously opposing them. And with continuous pressure, it was bound to
collapse at some crucial point. In order to make the Communist Party - the
Chinese Communist Party - survive for long time, they figured they should go
and unite with the Western capitalists.
Because
of the big investments, and the fact that the Western world has made
significant amounts of money in China, they not only persuaded the Western
politicians, but also convinced the Western media to beautify the Communist
Party's rule. For this reason it has become extremely difficult to impose
pressure from overseas on the Communist Party to make it change.
This
is one of the most important reasons why, in 1997, I eventually accepted the
exchange condition and came to the United States. I think the battle outside
China has become a critical front in overturning the communist rule.
In
China if you want to engage in any anti-Communist Party activities, then you
would need some more or less free space. For example, if some people are there
to give some anti-Communist Party speeches, then they would need some form of
protection. Then the speech could gradually spread out and gradually take hold
in the society and form a stream of force and a power. All these things call
for certain protection, but where could this kind protection possibly come
from, apart from some minimum protective measures from within the Communist
Party?
The
protection comes mainly from pressure imposed by international society. Through
changes in the Soviet Union and in Eastern Europe as well as changes in South
Africa, et cetera, we can see that the pressure coming from international
society is very effective.
In
fact, an extremely important factor in whether the domestic resistance movement
within the country could reach a certain level or not is actually whether
sufficient pressure could be obtained from overseas governments or not. We saw
the success of the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, saw the success in
South Africa. But we are dealing with the Chinese Communist Party; we are
facing a totally new situation.
There
is an effective way that is very simple, which is one the Americans have
practiced before, with President Kennedy and Present Reagan, who adopted those
clear and strong policies against the communist countries and to protect those
anti-government people within. This is a very effective policy. But the problem
is, under the current circumstances, I don't think the American government can
make it happen again like that.
I
think there is a big problem that we have not discussed. That is, the Americans
tend to make a mistake they think they should act on behalf of the other people
rather than provide assistance to the other people. This is one of the reasons
they often make mistake.
__ __ __
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中文版
Wei
Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A709-W446
魏京生基金会新闻与文章发布号： A709-W446
Release
Date: May 13, 2012
发布日：2012年5月13日
Topic:
Biography and Transcripts of Wei Jingsheng in His Video Interviews Featured at
the Freedom Collection at the George W. Bush Presidential Center
标题：小布什总统中心的自由汇集里有关魏京生的传记及访谈录像的文字记录
Original
Language Version: English (Chinese version at the end)
此号以英文为准（英文在前，中文在后）
如有中文乱码问题，请与我们联系或访问:
http://www.weijingsheng.org/report/report2012/report2012-05/WeiJSinFreedomCollection120513atBushPresidentialCenterA709-W446.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------------
小布什总统中心的自由汇集里有关魏京生的传记及访谈录像的文字记录
在小布什总统中心的自由汇集里有关魏京生的传记及访谈录像的文字记录目前已经上网。网址为：
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/
以下为有关魏京生的访谈录像的相关网址：
1. 魏京生谈建立反对党：
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=632
2. 魏京生谈天安门大屠杀：
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=631
3. 魏京生谈邓小平和经济发展：
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=629
4. 魏京生谈共产党折磨政治犯的手段：
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=630
5. 魏京生谈第五个现代化：
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=628
6. 魏京生谈中国和资本主义
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=627
__ __ __
以下为小布什总统中心的自由汇集里有关魏京生的介绍：
作为中国的良心犯，魏京生在狱中呆了十八年。魏京生于1950年出生。他的父母为共产党党员。他曾在中国人民解放军中当兵并在文革期间去农村劳动。
1978年，魏京生在民主墙上贴了一篇叫做“第五个现代化：民主”的文章。和当时大多数支持自由的中国作者不同的是，魏京生在这篇文章里署了名。这对当时企图在继续镇压不同政见的同时进行经济改革的北京政府是一个直接的挑战。很快，魏京生就被以“反革命”的名义被捕，并在狱中呆了18年。
到了1990年中，魏京生是中国最知名的政治犯。巨大的国际压力要求释放他。1997年，他被容许出国治疗。目前他住在美国，并领导着中国民主运动海外联席会议。
__ __ __
录像一：以下为小布什总统中心的自由汇集里收集的魏京生有关“建立反对党”访谈的录像网址及文字记录：
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=632
在自己国家建立民主，最重要的不是去推翻政府，而是建立一个反对党。哪怕共产党仍然在台上，只要这个国家真正有了一个反对党和反对派，这个国家的民主就有了开端。
__ __ __
录像二：以下为小布什总统中心的自由汇集里收集的魏京生有关“天安门大屠杀”访谈的录像网址及文字记录：
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=631
89年镇压时，邓小平遇到了很大的阻力。不像人们想象的那样邓小平掌握着军队。实际上军队里的不同意见非常强烈。不过，无论如何邓小平最终度过了难关，花了两三个月的时间把部队控制住了，并且利用可以控制的部队，把人民群众强烈要求的一场和平演变给镇压下去了。
一般人都没有注意到，实际上1989年运动之所以给共产党造成了那么大的动摇，就是因为它不仅来自于老百姓的反对，也来自共产党内部的大多数人的反对。所以那场运动变得这么强烈，那么大。因为所有的人，党内的党外的，都在反对邓小平的政策。邓小平之所以在这场艰难的斗争中可以取胜，关键是80年代已经形成了一个利益集团，由高级官员和他们子女构成的利益集团。这个利益集团是坚决支持邓小平的，所以最后他险胜了。因此，1989年以后，中国的政策，就变得更加依靠这个官僚资产阶级集团。
__ __ __
录像三：以下为小布什总统中心的自由汇集里收集的魏京生有关“邓小平和经济发展”访谈的录像网址及文字记录：
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=629
我想其实中国人反抗共产党的统治，从50年代初期共产党一上台就开始了。但这种反抗往往是站在共产党的立场上的行为，认为要维持共产党的制度，但加以一定的改革就可以了。
从1978年民主墙开始，有少数人提出来，共产党这种制度要结束，必须彻底结束共产党的一党专政，中国才能够变好。这是一个根本的变化——要求改变制度，这是从1978年在民主墙上提出。1978年在民主墙上提出这个观点的时候，曾受到很多人的攻击。但是老百姓都非常爱看。围观的人非常多，文字流传得非常广。
当时的老百姓没有想到可以推翻共产党，有些人即便想到了也不敢说。所以当我们说出来了这个观点，并把文字变成油印的杂志来传播，在全国引起了很大的反响。在我被关进去以后，80年初开始，中国要求民主、要求结束共产党一党专政的思潮发展得非常快。整个80年代这个思潮成为共产党最大的精神敌人，包括共产党内部，也有人跳出来说中国应该走民主的道路，要自由化。这成为邓小平要打击的主要目标。
很快，这种要求民主化的思想，在中国酝酿得越来越成熟了，越来越广泛了。而且不仅仅限于法制，整个社会都要求民主，在言论自由方面，在各种制度方面，大家都要求越来越开放，包括经济方面。这时候邓小平一方面不得不接受社会上的要求，给与经济上的越来越自由化，但是在政治上，他则要守住共产党的政治阵地。于是他就主动发起了一些运动，比如“反对资产阶级自由化”的运动。这个运动是80年一场非常激烈的争斗。一方面社会要求自由化，一方面邓小平不断地发起运动来反对这个自由化。这个斗争越来越激烈，一直延续到80年代末。实际上邓小平在经济上不得不开放，在政治上坚决不开放的这种思路，是在80年时期慢慢形成的。一开始他也不清楚，所有人都不清楚中国到底要怎么走。但是邓小平很快发现，第一，如果经济上不改革，那么经济会崩溃，老百姓不能忍受，共产党要下台；另外，如果政治上开放，给人们自由，那么共产党的一党专政也站不住脚。这一点他头脑非常清醒。所以他的这种思想，和社会上要求民主化的情绪，对抗得越来越激烈。到了1989年，这个对抗就爆发了。甚至在党内，这个对抗也非常激烈。于是有了1989年的运动。
在经济上，邓小平发现可以放手发展，不仅放手让中国老百姓发展，而且吸引外国商人帮助中国加速发展经济。他认为，只要经济上发展得好，让人民吃饱饭，挣足够多的钱，老百姓就不会造反了。邓小平认为，这也是整个80年代发展起来的思想。如果经济发展了，是不是会导致民主？很多西方人认为经济发展就能民主了。邓小平想的是，如何在经济发展的情形下继续维持一党专政？他有句名言：让一部分人先富起来，或者说让自己的子弟们先富起来。如果这些钱都掌握在他们子弟手里，那么即使将来发展了资本主义的经济，政治上仍然可以维持一党专政。他认为所谓的民主，也是掌握在资产阶级手里的民主，只要“资产阶级”还是我们共产党的人，那么这个政权一定还是我们共产党一党维持的。
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录像四：以下为小布什总统中心的自由汇集里收集的魏京生有关“共产党折磨政治犯的手段”访谈的录像网址及文字记录：
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=630
有很多犯人，被单独关在一个地方，时间久了他就难受得要发疯，最后就屈服了。另一种情形时让你感到很痛苦。这个痛苦不是用鞭子抽你，而是用各种方法折磨你，比如你绝食，就用所谓的“人道主义”方法来折磨你。很多人也在这种情形下屈服了。当然也有人因为思念家人，等等。在监狱里，屈服的人是非常多的。各种折磨都是让你无法忍受的，超过了人可以忍受的极限。这是共产党监狱常用的手法。
我们这些政治犯都会遇到一个很大的问题，包括那些共产党内部被抓起来的政治犯――犯人被设定在一个很小的环境里，绝对安静，不许人和你谈话，也不许外人和你接触，你听不到任何外界的声音。在这种情形下，一般在半年到两年这段时间内，人的脑子就会出问题，就会疯掉。我们发现很多监狱里关押的政治犯，包括非共产党的和共产党内部的政治犯，很多人被放出来以后，脑子都有问题。有的人脑子有问题，被外人看不起，觉得他是个疯子。但是我知道，这是因为监狱单独关押折磨的后果，它造成了这些人的脑子慢慢出了问题。
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录像五：以下为小布什总统中心的自由汇集里收集的魏京生有关“第五个现代化”访谈的录像网址及文字记录：
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=628
这要追溯到30年以前，1978-1979年间的事情。那个时候中国正处于一个变动时期。毛泽东死了不久，毛夫人被抓了起来，邓小平还没有上台。在这个变动时期，大部分人认为，跟着共产党，维持这个政权，可能比较好。可是我们这些年轻人——那是我很年轻，我们认为中国应该学习西方的民主，有了西方的民主，中国的文化、政治、经济才会有正常的发展。所以当时我在西单民主墙贴出大字报，其中最有名的一张大字报是“第五个现代化——民主”，主张中国应该走民主的道路。这张大字报马上获得了很多老百姓的支持，所以共产党把我抓起来了。
从文化革命以来的十多年间，很多年轻人觉得很痛苦，大家怀着良好的愿望，想改造这个社会，可是越改造越糟糕，老百姓活得很困苦。我们逐渐发现，还是西方这种民主制度比较好，特别是美国的民主制度。当时大家很羡慕，做了一些初步的研究以后，我们认为中国只有民主化了，只有实行了民主，在政治制度改革成民主制度以后，中国的各个方面才能走向正常的道路，才能够走出贫困。当时大家主要想的就是这些。
在这些文章里，我们所说的主要内容，还是揭露共产党多年来制造的灾难，让大家醒悟过来。其实当时我们自己对西方民主的了解也不是特别多，但是我们可以看到，这个制度的结果很好，老百姓的日子过得很好。这是所有老百姓希望看到的东西。最早的时候，共产党有一套共产主义的理想，用这个东西来吸引老百姓。当时很多的年轻人参加了共产党，所以共产党能取得政权。但是共产党取得政权以后连续带来许多灾难，人们已经不太相信共产主义了。所以在70年代初，毛泽东和周恩来提出要四个现代化，就是工业、农业、国防、和科技的四个现代化，以此作为理想来吸引老百姓。所以我提出第五个现代化，意思是，没有第五个现代化，没有民主，其它几个现代化都不可能实现，即使实现了对老百姓也没有什么好处。
我这么做，可能跟我从小受的教育有一定的关系。我的父辈，他们为了理想，为了让中国有个真正好的变化，抛头颅洒热血，出来干革命。虽然我们的理想和他们不一样，但他们的精神却被我们继承下来了。我们不是只想自己生活得好，我们看到老百姓受苦受难，就不能忍受，所以我最终选择了这个道路。
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录像六：以下为小布什总统中心的自由汇集里收集的魏京生有关“中国和资本主义”访谈的录像网址及文字记录：
http://www.freedomcollection.org/interviews/wei_jingsheng/?vidid=627
中国和资本主义，这个非常有关。从90年以后，可以看到邓小平的政策有更突出的特点，就是对外国大企业更加开放，对港台、西方的大企业更加开放。为什么会这样？因为在1989年时，邓小平发现在关键时刻，国际社会，特别是以美国为首的国际社会对他的压力并没有那么大，这成了他度过难关的重要条件。89年以后的20年来，共产党的政策变得越来越清楚——共产党依靠的不是中国的穷人，也不是国际上的所谓左派，他们依靠的是全世界的资产阶级，只要给这个资产阶级赚钱的机会，那它就会支持这个政权。
实际上89年中共还有一个反面的教训，就是为什么苏联和东欧为什么顷刻之间垮台，因为苏联和东欧共党政权没有得到西方的支持，西方一直在持续地反对他们，给与压力，这些压力到了关键时刻就会爆发。为了让中国共产党能够长远地生存下去，他们觉得应该去联合西方的资产阶级。因为西方大企业在中国赚了很多的钱。这些人不仅说服政治家，还说服媒体，用媒体来说服公众，美化共产党的专制统治。这样一来，在海外给共产党施加压力，以便促使变化，就变得非常困难。
这也是为什么我`1997年最终决定接受这个交换来到美国的一个重要原因。我认为在海外的斗争，已经变成推翻共产党的一个非常关键的问题。在中国国内要进行反抗共产党的活动，多少需要一点自由的空间。比如说有人发表反对共产党的言论，他要受到一定的保护，他的言论才会慢慢扩散开来，在社会上才会慢慢形成一个团体，形成一股力量，一股势力。这需要一定的保护。但是这个保护来自何方？除了来自共产党内部的一点点保护措施以外，主要来自国际社会的压力.从东欧的变化，南非的变化可以看出，国际社会的压力还是非常有效的。
国内的反抗运动，是否能够提升到一定的水平，真正最关键的因素取决于海外是否可以施加足够的压力。我们看到苏联东欧的成功，看到南非的成功，但是面对中国共产党，我们遇到的是完全新的情况，有效的方法非常简单，这是美国人早就做过的，像肯尼迪总统和里根总统那样，对共产党国家采取明确的、强硬的态度，同时维护那些反政府的人，这是非常有效的政策。问题是，在现在的形势下，美国政府做不到这一点。有一个很大的问题我们刚才没有谈到，美国人经常犯一种错误，他们以为他们可以代替别人做事情，而不是帮助别人做事情。这是他们经常犯错误的原因之一。
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