Overseas Chinese Democracy Coalition News and Article Release Issue Number: A1020-O289

中国民主运动海外联席会议新闻与文章发布号：A1020-O289

Release Date: June 18, 2017

发布日：2017年6月18日

Topic: Witnesses of the 1989 Democracy Movement: the 1989 Tiananmen Square Democracy Movement I experienced (Voice of America "Pro and Con" Program)

标题：六四亲历者：我经历的天安门事件(美国之音“焦点对话”节目)

Original Language Version: Chinese (Chinese version at the end)

此号以中文为准（英文在前，中文在后）

Note: Please use "Simplified Chinese (GB2312)" encoding to view the Chinese parts of this release. If this mail does not display properly in your email program, please send your request for special delivery to us or visit:

http://www.weijingsheng.org/report/report2017/report2017-06/64experience170618VOApro&conA1020-O289.htm　which contains identical information.

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Editor's note: the following is the VOA introduction of its first half of "Pro and Con" talk show by Ning Xin on June 2 , 2017, featuring its invited guests: Ciping HUANG, Yaxue CAO, Hengqing LI, and Wei ZHANG.

VOA Pro and Con Program: Witnesses of the 1989 Democracy Movement: the 1989 Tiananmen Square Democracy Movement I experienced

June 2, 2017 23:56

-- Ning Xin, Voice of America

Washington -

Several generations of people have a common collective memory about the 1989 democracy movement in China: tens of thousands of hunger strike protestors in Tiananmen Square, the Goddess of Democracy that held the torch, the students kneeling outside of the Great Hall with their petitions, Wang Weilin, the lone protestor on Chang'an Street who blocked an array of tanks of the People's Liberation Army... However, in addition to these collective memories, each of us also has our own unique memory fragments. These memories imprinted in our hearts, and became deep marks that can never be wiped off in our lives. What is your most profound memory about the 1989 democracy movement in China? Here we invite several guests to share their memories.

The four guests are: chief editor of the online magazine China Change Yaxue Cao, Washington pension fund auditor Hengqing Li, IFCSS council member and executive director of the Wei Jingsheng Foundation Ciping Huang, and financial consultant and legal advisor from Beijing Wei Zhang.

Hengqing Li said that the most memorable scene was the night sky in Beijing on June 3, 1989, when the bullets were like meteors all over the sky or like the fireworks during the festivals. His schoolmate, Duan Changlong, a 1984-year student at the Chemistry Department in Tsinghua University, was killed in the morning of June 4 in the vicinity of Xidan intersection. Before the June 4 Massacre, we had no premonition about repression, although it was expected that the leaders might be put in jail. "But we did not expect the government to use tanks and machine guns to suppress us; the then-time mood was like -- I want to die here."

Hengqing Li said that as one of the student leaders, he was hidden in northeast China after the withdrawal from the Tiananmen Square. He got help from a lot of people he did not know. Finally, when he returned to Beijing via Tianjin at the end of July he saw the train platform in Tianjin was full of troops carrying out martial law, which was very chilly. After he hid in Beijing for a month, he went to the Chang'an Street to see the bullet holes in LiuBuKou. He saw that about every 20 meters there was a soldier to carry out martial law. He was arrested and put into Qincheng Prison for one year, where there were more than 200 detained students in the building. All of them were there due to the 1989 democracy movement. While most of them were later released, more than 10 people were sentenced.

It is worth mentioning that because of the international concern, the punishment of the Communist regime against most of the detained students was relatively restrained, compared with the average citizens who received more brutal treatment. Many Beijing citizens were sentenced to death because they blocked the military vehicles, throwing burning bottles, and so on. Even now there are people still in prison. There is no record of the suffering of the average citizens.

Hengqing Li said that he was transformed from a student cadre of communism to a participant of the student movement. This transformation of thought is most appropriately summarized by his father: first pursuing joining the Communist Party with pious idealism in 1985 before high school graduation, then becoming doubtful in 1986, to become anti-Communist Party and anti-Socialism in 1987. Just as Hu Ping said, as long as you are pursuing the truth, you will be anti-Communist Party and anti-Socialism.

Yaxue Cao said that in 1989 she was in Shenzhen, and thus able to watch the Hong Kong TV live from all directions as well as all foreign media reports that the international audience would see. At that time she saw the tanks in Tiananmen Square rolling over tents, flat carriers pulling the dead bodies and the injured people, as well as military vehicles patrolling in the streets.

Yaxue Cao said that in the 1980s, university students in China were eager to pursue freedom and liberty. She liked literature, but was not interested in politics. She did not give too much thought even she saw the rich contents on TV, but her brother's one sentence well represented the situation then. He said: "Let us go back to our hometown in Shanxi, and be guerrillas in the mountains!" This sentence reflected people's thought at that time, as if China had entered a war when the Chinese Communist regime shot the people.

Ciping Huang said that during the 1989 democracy movement, she already had a full-time job with a comfortable life and meanwhile was still studying in school in the USA. Starting in April 1989, she began to pay attention to the student movement and its trends, for she considered that as an opportunity as well as a potential disaster in China. Although she was overseas, she actively participated. She used the communication tools of the time, fax and phone; and also co-founded the IFCSS (the Independent Federation of the Chinese Students and Scholars, USA). She worked day and night to organize for solidarity with the students inside China, and even sent faxes to persuade officials in China not to go against the will of the people.

Ciping Huang said that the overseas students then were strongly driven by the sense of responsibility. During the establishment of the IFCSS at the end of July 1989, there were student representatives coming from Australia, Japan, Canada, and European countries to support and associate. On October 1, 1989, tens of thousands of students marched from Lincoln Memorial to the Chinese embassy to protest the June 4 massacre.

Wei Zhang said that he was in 6th grade at the time of June 4 Massacre. He was young and very afraid. His father described the shooting by the soldiers he witnessed. On June 5, after the Tiananmen Square was forcefully emptied, his father joined the protesters in the back of the group. At the front of the protesters, there were many young men who were shouting the slogan of "fascists go back", which was responded with direct fire of the machine guns from the army. People fell over. After the shooting stopped the crowd gathered again, and encountered more fire from the machine guns. More people fell over. His father was hiding behind the poles, looking for an opportunity to escape on his bike. One of his uncles saw a large number of tricycles carrying the bodies passing by his front door.

Wei Zhang said that another uncle was a music teacher. One of his students lived in a building for high-level cadres. When he was lying down and asleep, a bullet went across his scalp. Zhang's family had their balcony facing outside, so they had to figure out where the whole family should hide to protect their lives when they encountered the shooting. "Because we all want to live, do not want to die."

For more exciting content, please watch the full version of "Pro and Con" on June 2, 2017.

Original link of this report:

https://www.voachinese.com/a/VOAWeishi-ProandCon-20170602-Unknow-stories-from-4-Chinese-My-personal-experience-during-the-1989-Tiananmen-movement/3884312.html

YouTube link of this video by VOA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5y3u12U5lc

or:

https://youtu.be/I23BzVSrQkg

and:

http://www.weijingsheng.org/interviews/interviews2017/64experience170602VOApro&con.mp4

The audio of this video is available at:

http://www.weijingsheng.org/interviews/interviews2017/64experience170602VOApro&con.mp3

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中文版

Overseas Chinese Democracy Coalition News and Article Release Issue Number: A1020-O289

中国民主运动海外联席会议新闻与文章发布号：A1020-O289

Release Date: June 18, 2017

发布日：2017年6月18日

Topic: Witnesses of the 1989 Democracy Movement: the 1989 Tiananmen Square Democracy Movement I experienced (Voice of America "Pro and Con" Program)

标题：六四亲历者：我经历的天安门事件(美国之音“焦点对话”节目)

Original Language Version: Chinese (Chinese version at the end)

此号以中文为准（英文在前，中文在后）

如有中文乱码问题，请与我们联系或访问：

http://www.weijingsheng.org/report/report2017/report2017-06/64experience170618VOApro&conA1020-O289.htm

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(编者按：以下为2017年6月2日美国之音“焦点对话”主持人宁馨采访黄慈萍，曹雅学，李恒青，张维节目的前半场介绍。)

焦点对话：六四亲历者：我经历的天安门事件

2017年6月2日 23:56

-- 美国之音主持人宁馨

华盛顿 -

对于六四，整整几代人都有着共同的集体记忆：天安门广场上成千上万的绝食抗议者，高举火炬的民主女神像，人民大会堂外请愿的下跪学生，在长安街上只身阻挡解放军坦克车队的王维林... 但是，除了这些集体记忆之外，我们每个人还有自己独特的记忆片段。这些记忆烙印在我们的心中，是我们生命历程中永远抹不去的深深刻痕。您有关六四的最深刻的记忆是什么？下面我们就请几位嘉宾来分享他们的记忆。

这四位嘉宾分别是：网上杂志"改变中国"的主编曹雅学女士；华盛顿养老基金审计师李恒青先生；全美学自联理事，魏京生基金会执行主任黄慈萍女士；北京咨询公司和律师事务所顾问张维先生。

李恒青说，记忆最深刻的是，北京6月3号的夜空中，子弹就像漫天流星一般地划过，像节庆时节的焰火。我的学友、清华化工系84级的段昌隆同学就是六四凌晨在西单路口附近遇害的。六四之前我们对镇压没有预感，虽然预计领头人可能会坐牢，但真没想到政府使用坦克和机关枪来镇压，当时的心情是-就想死在那里。

李恒青表示，自己作为学生领袖之一，撤出广场之后一度躲到东北，获得很多素不相识者的帮助。最后在7月底不得不经由天津回北京时，看到天津站站台上和外面布满戒严部队，一片肃杀。回到北京躲藏一个月后，前往长安街六部口看弹孔，看到每隔大概20米便有一个戒严部队持枪战士；他被捕后被投入秦城监狱一年；当时秦城有整个一栋楼关押着200多学生，都是六四同案犯，其中多数后来获得释放，十多人被判刑。

值得一提的是，很多学生被捕，但由于国际高度关注，中共对他们的惩罚还相对克制，相比之下市民受到更残暴的对待。很多市民因为堵军车、扔燃烧瓶等被判死刑，甚至现在还有人在牢里。普通市民的遭遇没有人记录。

李恒青说，自己从学生干部到参加学运，这个思想改变用他父亲的总结最合适，就是85年上高三带着虔诚和对理想的追求入党，86年开始怀疑，87开始反党反社会主义。正如胡平所说，只要追求真理就会走到反党反社会主义这一步。

曹雅学说，六四发生时，自己在深圳，得以全方位观看香港电视实况，与国际观众一样看到全部外媒的报道。当时看到坦克在天安门广场碾轧帐篷，平板车拉着尸体和伤者，还有军车在街道上穿梭。

曹雅学说，80年代，中国大学学生追求自由和解放的心态很强烈，自己当时喜欢文学，对政治不感兴趣。即便六四看到丰富的电视画面也没想太多，但是，哥哥的一句话很能代表当时的形势，他说："我们回家乡山西上山打游击去吧！"从这句话反映出，当时的老百姓认为中共开枪，中国陷入了一场人民战争。

黄慈萍说，六四发生时，自己在美国一边上学一边做着一份全职工作，生活安逸；四月开始关注国内学潮形势，认为对中国既是一个机会也可能是一场灾难。尽管身在海外但是积极参与其中，利用当时的通讯工具传真和电话建立全美学自联，夜以继日组织声援，甚至发传真劝说国内官员不要与人民作对。

黄慈萍说，当时海外留学生受到强烈责任感驱使，全美学自联7月底成立时，来自澳大利亚、日本、加拿大、欧洲的留学生都有代表参加。89年国庆时，华盛顿有上万学生游行前往中国使馆抗议六四屠杀。

张维说，六四发生时，自己上初二，不谙世事而且也很害怕。父亲转述了亲眼看到的军人扫射。六月四五号，清场已经结束，父亲参加众人的游行队伍排在后面，前面是很多年轻人。他们高喊"法西斯退回去"的口号，遭到军队机枪直接扫射，人群中有人倒下；机枪停止后，人群再度聚集，遭到机枪继续扫射，又有人倒下，后面的父亲藏身电线杆后，寻机骑车逃跑；一个舅舅则看到大批三轮车载着尸体经过自己的家门口。

张维说，另一个舅舅是音乐教师，他的一个学生住高干楼，躺着睡觉时流弹擦过头皮；我们家阳台朝外，设计着如果遭到扫射，全家应该躲藏在哪里才能保命，因为我们都想活下去，不想死。

更多精彩内容，请收看2017年6月2日的《焦点对话》完整版。

本次节目的原始链接：

https://www.voachinese.com/a/VOAWeishi-ProandCon-20170602-Unknow-stories-from-4-Chinese-My-personal-experience-during-the-1989-Tiananmen-movement/3884312.html

相关录像链接：焦点对话：六四亲历者：六四与我的人生

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5y3u12U5lc

或：

https://youtu.be/I23BzVSrQkg

及：

http://www.weijingsheng.org/interviews/interviews2017/64experience170602VOApro&con.mp4