Wei Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A1184-W812
Release Date: January 20, 2019
Topic: Exclusive Interview with Ciping HUANG: Chinese Should be Able to Enjoy Freedom and Democracy (Published by the November 2018 issue of Chinese European Post)
Original Language Version: Chinese (Chinese version at the end)
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Chinese European Post (November 2018 issue)
Exclusive Interview with Ciping HUANG: Chinese Should be Able to Enjoy Freedom and Democracy
-- by Hu RUI, Chinese European Post
Ciping HUANG is the Secretary-General of the Overseas Chinese Democracy Coalition, Executive Director of the Wei Jingsheng Foundation, and council member and Chairwoman of the Independent Federation of the Chinese Students and Scholars, USA (IFCSS). In 1978, without graduating from high school, she passed the college entrance exam and was admitted to the Department of Modern Physics of the University of Science and Technology of China. She became a classmate of the "talented children class" well known in China. In the summer of 1984, she went to the United States to study. She obtained a master's degree in nonlinear optics from the University of Toledo. After that, she worked in the USA and became a senior optical engineering consultant.
She was the first vice-chair of the Pan Pacific and Southeast Asian Women's Association in Toledo, a member of the University Women's Federation of the USA. In 1989 the June 4th Massacre in Beijing, especially the tragic murder of her college classmate, changed the course of her life. Since then, she has joined the overseas Chinese democracy movement and is committed to promoting the progress of democracy and freedom in China. She has served as the president and council chair of IFCSS, as well as Chairman of its June 4 Humanitarian Aid Committee. In 1999, she served as president of the Global Chinese Student Union. In 1990, she participated in and helped organize the first Chinese political opposition party overseas and was elected as a Liaison Committee member of the Chinese Liberal and Democratic Party. She firmly believes that the premise of democracy and freedom in China was to end the one-party autocratic system in China. This reporter of the Chinese European Post interviewed her at the China Road Symposium in Düsseldorf in the summer of 2018.
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WEI Jingsheng Is a Banner of the Democracy Movement
Hu RUI of the Chinese European Post: Ciping, I am very glad that you have accepted the interview with the Chinese European Post during your busy schedule. (Huang Ciping: I am also very happy.) Why didn't you join the Federation for a Democratic China (FDC) from the beginning?
Ciping HUANG: At that time I felt that the FDC was politically limited and still within the Communist system. The FDC has never developed in the United States, because in the USA, there were already the strong presence of the IFCSS and the Chinese Democratic Alliance (CDA). But I did not join CDA either because I considered that organization also as politically limited. That is why we went on to organize and found the Chinese Liberal and Democratic Party. At that time, we tried to merge with the CDA of Dr. Wang Bingzhang. There were many things going on then. I also had exchanges with Dr. Wang Ce, with the same original intention -- to establish a democratic system, China must have an opposition party. This is an important part of trying to build democracy.
Hu RUI: You wrote a lot of articles in the 1990s that were published in the China News Digest.
Ciping HUANG: In 1989, we established the English version of "China News Digest", with all the content to be in English. During the first ten years of my stay in the USA, I did not speak too much Chinese nor write too many Chinese characters. Our readers were the tens of thousands of Chinese students and scholars from all over the world. At that time, I already had a full-time job. I worked as a volunteer editor for the China News Digest, which was very hard. It was two weeks long in continuous rotation, with one release every day. I had to edit all night long without sleep for these releases. At the end of 1990, IFCSS was invited by the Chair of the Youth Committee of the Supreme Soviet, who was a good friend of Andrei Sakharov, to visit the then Soviet Union. That was when the Soviet Union was in a state of collapse. Both Gorbachev and Yeltsin were there, as the Supreme Soviet tried to change itself from a rubber stamp to a real parliament representing the people. This visit was very interesting. I wrote some short reports published in the English "China News Digest".
Hu RUI: Did not you participate in the merger of the CDA and FDC in 1993?
Ciping HUANG: No. Mainly I was doing the IFCSS work until the end of 1997, when WEI Jingsheng came out. (Hu Rui: You started to work for him from the beginning?) Not yet. I tried to greet him when he had just arrived in the USA, but did not see him initially. In 1998, I participated in the first conference of the Overseas Chinese Democracy Coalition. At that time, I was the IFCSS president and represented IFCSS. Many democracy movement organizations participated in this conference, but they did not include IFCSS. I only spoke as a VIP at the conference in congratulation. Then in 2000, when I opposed the USA's preferential trade status for China, I helped WEI Jingsheng to do some work. At the time, I still held a full-time job in Ohio. My home in Ohio is more than 800 kilometers from Washington DC. But at that time, I was young and strong. After finished my work on Friday, I drove to Washington DC. I drove all night long and would just arrive in Washington DC the next morning in time to do something. Sometimes I had to take a day off for some events. I told my boss that the salary was not as important to me as the vacation days. My boss was very sympathetic and supportive to us. Normal Americans people, like the Europeans, truly support democracy and freedom in China. The politicians were more concerned with interests and money. The Americans are very pragmatic and my boss was very good to me. I am very grateful to him. He supported and sympathized with me and let me take extra days off. But I still had to work from Monday to Friday. My boss thought that the Chinese people worked hard like me. But the Chinese employees he recruited later on were not as ideal as he had hoped.
Hu RUI: As a volunteer, to work for democracy and meanwhile hold a full-time job must be very hard?
Ciping HUANG: It was very hard. I had to work full time from 8 am to 6 pm every day, then work on these online news digests all night, as reporter and editor. China News Digest was the first online magazine with tens of thousands of Chinese readers. At that time, it was only available in the English version. From 1999, I started to help WEI Jingsheng. Before that, I used a lot of time to work as the president of IFCSS. The workload and time spent as a volunteer far surpassed my official job. The workload for my job was fixed. Everyday I drank 7-8 cups of coffee. Often I came in late, while my colleagues waited for me and for me to answer questions they might have, etc.
Hu RUI: Let us talk about WEI Jingsheng.
Ciping HUANG: WEI Jingsheng is the mainstay of the overseas democracy movement. I admire him very much, even as now. You cannot find another person who is as smart, as insightful and as determined as he is. His biggest weakness is his English skill, while my weakness is my Chinese skill. So we even had difficulty to communicate. WEI Jingsheng is very proud and often claimed that I am his Chinese student. So I also proudly told him that he is my English student and we are complementary. Later, when I really had difficulty to drive the 800 km distance, I turned my full-time job into consulting. Starting from the year 2000, I helped WEI Jingsheng more regularly. Before that, he also appreciated me very much. But he tried to find someone to help him and never found a suitable one. In fact, even nowadays, I am still work for him as volunteer, instead of being paid. I go to Washington every month to help him for a few days.
Hu RUI: Recently, Radio Free Asia (RFA) had an exclusive interview of him with dialogue. RFA asked him what ideas he had in recent years that could surpass "the Fifth Modernization - Democracy" theory he proposed in the 1970s. WEI Jingsheng said that there is no such kind of breakthrough, and it was just a diplomacy by one person -- himself. I think WEI Jingsheng has been the banner of overseas democracy since he came out until now, but there is no new theory of thought.
Ciping HUANG: That part of the RFA interview you saw was only the first part, and I was also there during the interview. There will be a second part broadcast soon. A very important quality of WEI Jingsheng is that he is irreplaceable. This time I came to Europe also under the glory of his banner. I will be running around Europe, representing WEI Jingsheng, including going to the European Parliament. The most important action of WEI Jingsheng overseas is that he has been able to do things no other democracy activist or even a democracy organization could do. WEI Jingsheng's influence in Western politics is enormous. In the past, Western political circles were affected by the economy and trade of the Chinese Communist regime. They were superficially interested in human rights. Now they truly recognize the evil nature of the Chinese Communist regime. Secondly, they finally started to reflect on past policies. Especially the current Trump administration has paid attention of WEI Jingsheng's opinions and advices. Therefore, recently WEI Jingsheng has spent much more time in the USA and finally his value recognized in the USA. His advice has influence on the US president and several other political figures. I say that he is like the Confucius who traveled around the countries. Now, a country recognizes the importance of his opinions.
Hu RUI: How it is reflected?
Ciping HUANG: The US administration took in and agreed with his opinions and advices. They include economics professor and government economic adviser Peter Navarro. We have known each other for almost 10 years, and he sent two books he wrote to WEI Jingsheng. He had a student about 6 years ago who now is also a professor, with whom we have contact. WEI Jingsheng has a huge influence on Sino-US relations. On the surface, it might be economic, but actually it is political. The current US Secretary of Defense also consulted with him. The diplomat who is in charge of Asian affairs is an expert on China. He was originally a journalist working in China, with an experience of the Chinese guards robbing him of the things he recorded and even hitting him. Later, he quit the reporter job and joined the military. Now, he is in charge of Asian affairs at the White House. He has the deepest understanding of the nature of the Chinese government. In the past, the Chinese police did not bully people like this in the open, or even beat people like that. He also knows WEI Jingsheng very well. On these fronts, Lao Wei is indeed irreplaceable.
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Physicist Who Is Willing to Be an Assistant to WEI Jingsheng
Hey: How did you become an assistant to Wei?
Huang: The cause of my help started in 1999 when the United States considered giving China the permanent Most Favored Nation (MFN) status. WEI strongly opposed it, saying that would be strengthening the Communist regime. At that time, many people, including many democracy activists, believed that this preferential status for China would be very good. In the United Nations, Wang Dan also said this preferential treatment should be given to China. Wei said this is wrong, this will make the Chinese people suffer even more, and even American workers would lose jobs. His opinions were opposed by many Chinese. The big businesses in Europe and the USA were also very friendly with the Communist regime. But Wei insisted on his own point of view. It is not easy to see him not fall as the banner for Chinese democracy in the past 20 years. The suppression he received was not only from the Communist regime, but also from the big businesses in Europe and the USA, as well as some Chinese democracy activists. Too many wanted to have torn up this banner. I believe to have a hero who can be the mainstay is the blessing of our country. I cannot find a second person to be compared with him.
Hu RUI: Your statement made me realize the significance of WEI Jingsheng as the banner of the democratic movement from the essence.
Ciping HUANG: WEI's economic achievement is also monumental. His theory is no less sophisticated than Karl Marx's. Marx's Capital is famous but outdated, but not WEI's. I translated all his theoretical writings. I use all my effort to help him. When he just came abroad, I was only sympathetic to him. I told him, "When you have no way to live, come to me." As long as I have something to eat, you will also have it. Now I am the same, and I will help him with all I could. I want him to be assured. His life in these years is not easy, and I am in the United States, even with retirement savings. I decided to support our Chinese hero. Many people are not aware of the importance of WEI Jingsheng, we owe him for his many years of sacrifice.
Hu RUI: I did not realize that either.
Huang: Many Chinese did not realize the dedication and the contribution of Wei Jingsheng. Now Americans have realized his contribution to the economic theory. Two years ago, the U.S. Business and Industry Council awarded him the "Economic Freedom Award" and particularly stated that they "proudly honored WEI Jingsheng as a champion of economic freedom and exceptional advocate for balanced trade relations between the Chinese and American People." He has been awarded numerous prizes and honors, including many human rights awards, that are enough to be listed on several pages. But for Wei Jingsheng to have won the economic prize is unusual. In 1999, he repeatedly said: People generally believe that if China's economy is good, it will promote the process of democratization. But in fact, if the Chinese economy develops, the Communist regime will be even more oppressive of the people and pose an even greater threat to the international community.
Hu RUI: The more you talk, the better. Let us understand more of WEI Jingsheng. People overseas thought of him as a redneck Robin Hood. They did not know WEI Jingsheng's influence to the Western politicians and entrepreneurs is not just diplomatic, but also economic; about Wei letting them know that the economic development in China is not conducive to democracy.
Ciping HUANG: With all the money they got, the Chinese Communist regime has spread money all over the world. I have heard a lot of WEI Jingsheng talking about this. It is best to let him write it himself. Some of his thoughts were very accurate, like prophecy, knowing early enough even 20 years ahead. For example: about Bo Xilai, he told me years ago that Bo Xilai would be in big trouble later on in his career. Wei attended the first wedding of Bo Xilai. Even at the wedding, he said that this marriage would not last for long. That is because it was a political marriage -- the bride was not pretty but her family had a strong political background. Bo Xilai is handsome, how could he want to marry this kind of wife? The Communist Party deceives the people but does not deceive themselves. For example, when Wei was young, he read the "big reference" (offered only to the high level Communist leaders). How could average Chinese like us ever read these? Therefore, he has an in-depth understanding of the essence of the Communist Party and knows the inside story of the internal struggle of the Communist regime. He said back then that Bo Xilai would be in trouble because he exposes the blades of his sword, while Xi Jinping was the opposite: hiding his blades and only exposing his true self when he got his opportunities. After all, WEI came from that circle and thus knows the roots.
There were more than 100 comments following that exclusive interview of WEI Jingsheng by Radio Free Asia. Most comments were people expressing their admiration of him -- saying that WEI Jingsheng came from a family of high-ranking Communist officials, and if he did not oppose the Communist dictatorship, he would not have to go to jail and would be awarded with money and interests as the other offspring of the Communist leaders. Why does he want to do these things against the Communist regime? People say that those against the Communist regime are "nuts and fools", I guess that could be said to be true. But WEI Jingsheng's anti-communism is completely different. His is greater than ours. He has suffered so much in his life, suffering from illness all over his body, and not able to care about what we the average people are all care about. Indeed, WEI Jingsheng is a banner, sometimes you see him alone on a single horse with a single gun in his hand. Some people asked if we have a team. But overseas, everyone must survive first and get busy for themselves. When people who just came out of China want to participate in the democracy movement, I always advice them to take care of themselves first. I also think that it is a "foolish thing" to work for the pro-democracy, as if I retreat back I could so much better be relaxed and enjoy my own life. Think of WEI Jingsheng: he is also a human being knowing all the enjoyment of life. As a matter of fact, everyone wants a family and has the desire to enjoy life.
Hu RUI: He spent 18 years in prisons and read a lot of books.
Ciping HUANG: No so. There was often nothing for him to read in jails. However, he read many books before his jail time. People say that Wei is a junior high school student who did not even graduate. That was caused by the Cultural Revolution. His ability to learn is very strong, with his intuition and his ability to comprehend. One rarely sees that kind of person. (RUI: How is his English now?) Not very good. He can make simple conversations, such as when he goes to hunt with American friends; then there are no communication difficulties between them.
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Dare to Say that the Emperor Did Not Wear Pants but Making Small Errors of His Own
Hu RUI: The US Congress once allocated two million dollars for Overseas Chinese Democracy Movement. But Wei Jingsheng did not want it. Was it because of his stand on the MFN status to China?
Ciping HUANG: No, it is because he could not then criticize the US policy about China, and he does not want his mouth to be sealed. This was very controversial within the Chinese democracy movement. Some people said: Look, so much money, we should take it first! But if just for the sake of money, WEI Jingsheng could get more from the Communist regime if he cooperated with them. Even I told him, your life worth at least several millions. (Rui: Is there such a threat?) Yes, there always is, which is also one of the reasons why he did not come to Europe this time. Recently, Wang Jian died. Is it not hard to imagine he was not that stupid to jump on that wall and fall to his own death? As far as I know, even if he does not die like this, he will die in other ways.
Hu RUI: Some people think that the WEI is nervous.
Ciping HUANG: No, the threat does exist and it is real. I cannot talk about a lot of things now, but just one. I am not afraid either, everyone will die in the end. In the past 20 years, we would usually drive to New York after we finished the June 4th commemoration event in Washington DC. Until a few years ago, we often found that our vehicle had a flat tire or was without electricity to start, right before we were to drive to New York. Why is it like this? It may be coincidental once or twice. But it is not coincidental if it happens many times. One year WEI Jingsheng went to Canada, and the security police there told him that he should not go, as the assassination team had already entered. Ji Shengde, the sons of Ji Pengfei (higher rank Communist official who once was the Minister of Foreign Affairs), and Jiang Zemin were in conflict to each other and wanted to stir up some international events. But Jiang Zemin discovered it and Ji Shengde was sentenced to death (later commuted to life sentence). His father was 90 years old and dying, yet unable to see him. When Ji Shengde was young, he was even a friend to Wei. So WEI Jingsheng could be without danger? This year, we learnt that the assassination team from China is in Europe. Then Wang Jian died, which made me a little relieved. In fact, the object of assassination may not necessarily have been Wang Jian.
Hu RUI: What assassinations happened in the United States?
Ciping HUANG: Supposedly Harry Wu died in the Caribbean, where you can have someone killed with some money. Only the United States is safe. However, Li Zhisui, Mao Zedong's doctor, might be assassinated. Sometimes it seems that Wei Jingsheng says something without too much thought, but later on proves to be true, such as when he predicted that LI would die soon. The reason is that the book Li was working on has not published, yet there were already advertisements for that book. In this regard, I admire WEI Jingsheng.
Hu RUI: How is it that the Nobel Peace Prize has yet to be awarded to him?
Ciping HUANG: This is very similar to that two million dollars issue. For example, when WEI Jingsheng just arrived in Sweden, he criticized the Swedish government for spending millions each year to train the police and judges in China, in the name of helping the establishment of the rule of law. But in fact, the Communist regime understands the rule of law, but does not follow even their own law except to take advantage of these laws. WEI Jingsheng's criticism of these Western countries such as Sweden and Norway, made officials there very upset. He knows that therefore he will lose many chances for awards, but to WEI Jingsheng, it is more important to stop those countries helping the Communist regime to train the police in China than to get some awards. In addition, he will never preach some theory (by LIU Xiaobo) of wishing the West to colonize China for 300-years, and I cannot accept this kind of saying either. This theory made the Westerners feel really cool, as if the Westerners are smarter and better than Chinese. Therefore, it is no surprise that the one who advocates Westerners to colonize China for 300 years can get the Nobel Peace Prize. Is it not? The great thing of WEI Jingsheng is that he is not afraid of offending people and telling the truth. He dares to tell the emperor that he did not wear his pants. But the Chinese dictators and the western politicians do not want to hear that. If you say that their new clothes are so beautiful, then they will be very happy. This is a common weakness of people.
Hu RUI: According to reports, WEI Jingsheng went to American universities to talk about Chinese history. Is he familiar with Chinese history?
Huang: More than familiar! Dr. CHEN Xingyu and WEI Jingsheng are two people in the overseas Chinese democracy movement who are most familiar with Chinese history, while Dr. QIAN Yuejun is more familiar with foreign history. WEI Jingsheng read history and never forgot, and even now his memory is also exceptionally outstanding. But he only remembers what he wants to remember, and does not remember other things. For example, if he tried to boil a pot of water, he might forget it, even if it was only 10 minutes ago. He is kind of unwilling to remember, with selective memory.
Hu RUI: When Lao Wei was interviewed by Voice of America, he said that Jiangxi's robbing of coffins was unscrupulousness by Xi Jinping's faction, and it was slaves showing their loyalty to the master.
Ciping HUANG: WEI also said, how can you prohibit the people from being buried, yet build such a grand grave monument for Xi Zhongxun (i.e. Xi Jinping's father)? Xi Jinping is a standard dictator. Some people question if the Cultural Revolution would reappear in China. WEI Jingsheng said that now it is already worse than the Cultural Revolution. You see, the police beat people, even if they are women and old men. A video shows an old man asked for directions, and the Chinese police just slapped him as a response. In the United States, it is not a problem to ask the police for directions. Back during the Cultural Revolution time, it was only the young Red Guards who rebelled, but now it is the Chinese police illegally beating people in broad daylight - now it is worse than the Cultural Revolution time in China.
Hu RUI: Did WEI Jingsheng attend the Berlin Conference in 2006? That was a quite big conference in the history of overseas democracy movements.
Ciping HUANG: Yes, there were quite a few people who attended, but I do not know the results. If you have money, you can get it done, including in Europe, where you could choose summer and enjoy tourism. WEI Jingsheng thinks winter is the best time for conferences, so the main focus could only be talking during the conferences. I would make compromises. WEI Jingsheng tends to do practical things, to produce results and get milestone effects. When the Federation for Democratic China was established, there were a lot of people present. During the Consolidation Conference in Washington DC in 1993, there were also a lot of people. I would not go to these conferences. In 1993, a lot of people attended the Consolidation Conference and had a negative result instead. It is very important to accomplish something instead. In recent years, we have held events in the US Congress every year, with one hundred people to attend. We have greatly impacted the American politic circle. The most important thing is to get the results we wanted. Years ago, many of our friends in Europe went to Geneva with us to participate in the human rights activities within the United Nations. Although there were not many people, nor a great effect, it was very important for the Chinese to be there, including our protests. When we do more, we are not just influencing the world, but more importantly, we reduce the CCP pressure on the Chinese people, especially political prisoners, so it is very meaningful for us the overseas Chinese to do these things.
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Chinese Society Overseas
Hu RUI: What does WEI Jingsheng think about GUO Wengui?
Ciping HUANG: WEI has already set his tone at the beginning. For more than one year now, from the rise of GUO Wengui until now, there are people who support him, there are people who against him, there are people who have tried to smash him. Some people are very abnormal, who would shift from extremely supportive of him to extremely against him. Some people are normal and understandable, who wake up. WEI has always been consistent on this issue. First, he expressed that he supports GUO Wengui braking news that exposes the Communist regime. But we do not agree with a lot of GUO's conduct, including the ways he got his wealth. WEI Jingsheng said that we are in full support of GUO publicizing news that exposes the ugly face of the Communist regime in China. This is kind of like playing chess. There are some so-called democracy activists who said that Guo Wengui split the Chinese democracy movement. For example, GAO Zhan, the Communist spy in the United States who purposefully joined the democracy movement when she got in trouble (with the FBI). She was a person working for the Chinese government and invited to the Chinese embassy in the USA all the time, yet she came to attend our activities which really insulted and defiled us. Later, she claimed to be a Christian and gave birth to two more children, in order to avoid jail time. In the democratic movement, these people who have high-pitched tone are not necessarily to be true democracy activists. I have noticed many times that when there are fights within the democracy movement, when both sides are agents really working for the Chinese government who provoke fights and have chaos in our movement as their purpose. I would be very upset for that. WEI Jingsheng is much calmer, treating these kinds of agents as the hooligans on the streets of Beijing.
Hu RUI: Some people say that Wei often said that this is an agent, and that is an agent of the Communist regime.
Ciping HUANG: Indeed, there are a lot of agents within the democracy movement, and we do have evidence of some people. Why has the democracy movement come to such a difficult point? If we got the archives of the Chinese Communist regime, we will find it out. Think about it: there were one third of these people in East Germany who were informants, even reports about Walesa and Havel. The Chinese Communist Party is even more shameless than the Communist Parties in Eastern Europe. Anyone who returns to China has to drink tea (demanded by the secret police), is it almost all? I resolutely did not sign a paper of a guarantee to meet when they demanded it in the past, which made me unable to return to China. I know that most people did sign that paper. Finally, even when my father was dying on his deathbed, they would not let me to see him. The shamelessness of the Communist regime is to use humanity to harass everyone. I understand the people who had to sign that paper, but I am determined not to sign, and there are very few people who did not sign. If there were one-third of people within the democracy movement of Eastern Europe who were informants, then there would be at least that percentage of informants within Chinese democracy movement. Wei Jingsheng knows a lot about these. This time he cannot come to Europe, and I cannot explain that to you, I should not.
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Clear Spring in the Desert
Hu RUI: How did you get to know Mrs. Lois Wheeler Snow?
Ciping HUANG: In Geneva, Switzerland. She lived in a small town near Geneva and used to go to Beijing every year. Later, we also visited her every year. She was in an alone and dilemma kind of situation: On one hand, she and her husband were the guests of the Communist regime. When Mr. Edgar Snow was seriously ill, Chinese premier Zhou Enlai sent a medical team to treat him. They invited Mrs. Snow go to Beijing every year. Half of Mr. Snow's ashes are buried by the Lake of Weiming in Peking University. Because of the association with her, many Chinese do not understand WEI Jingsheng. In fact, Wei is a person full of humanity. After 1989, Mrs. Snow rebelled against the Communist regime in China with her children. She also protested and wrote articles about it. WEI Jingsheng encouraged her. Once we took a group of more than a dozen Overseas Chinese Democracy Coalition friends to visit Mrs. Snow. Xiang Lin said: In the past these people were our opposites, how come now we are the guests at her home? Mrs. Snow's son Chris was born in the same year as WEI in 1950. Chris passed away a few years ago. Mrs. Snow treated WEI as her son. WEI talks sweetly to the old lady to please her. I often sigh, the others imagine him as a man made of steel without humanity. In fact, he is a person I have ever seen with most humanity. Seeing through my own eyes, I have often been touched, many times.
Hu RUI: Did not WEI Jingsheng come to Europe in June this year?
Ciping HUANG: He did not, for the same reason. Think of that: he was invited by the European Parliament, the European Union! The Belgian ambassador personally made a plea in his favor, yet he could not come over. (RUI: So you represented him on the stage?) Yes, I represented him on his behalf. I told him that one day, I may die on his behalf too. Ha ha ha ha. Yes, it is easier for me to communicate with Westerners.
Hu RUI: Go back to yourself. You said that you have not spoken Chinese and written Chinese for many years, but your recent articles published in our Chinese European Post, are very well written.
Ciping HUANG: Is it so? That was trying to fit to the taste of your editor-in-chief QIAN Yuejun. WEI Jingsheng often criticized me for being a literary youth who talked about all the beautiful scenery and moods of love. But your Chinese European Post and Dr. Qian's flavor are like that.
Hu RUI: Actually, the flavor of our newspapers is also diverse. There are too many of beautiful scenery and moods of love, but there are also articles by PENG Xiaoming.
Ciping HUANG: That is true. Generally speaking, Dr. Qian prefers this literature kind, so I write this kind to be published in your newspaper. (RUI: You wrote a lot of poems before?) It is Dr. Qian that made me to write that way.
RUI: You said that you are very pessimistic. In fact, you are also very optimistic, such as you wrote of the spring in the desert.
Ciping HUANG: But that is also very painful. It takes thousands of years for that spring water to arrive. The water in the desert originated not far away from that spring. But it was squeezed from the cracks of the rocks. It is difficult. (RUI: Actually, there is also hope.) Of course there is hope.
Hu RUI: From 2008 to the present, the Wei Jingsheng Foundation presented its prizes, with you using poems to make dedications.
Ciping HUANG: I am from a family of centuries-old intellectuals. My earliest ancestor was the Minister of Works in the Song Dynasty. I do not know whom he had offended. He fled to Huangyan in Zhejiang Province and even changed his family name. Later on, our family survived as an intellectual family. All the generations of men make good calligraphy, until our generation. The hundreds of years of hereditary do matter, not necessarily because how hard I worked, but because of my luck to be born in such a family. Although my education was also affected by the Cultural Revolution. I told WEI Jingsheng that if some people mocked him for not finishing junior high school, then he could say that HUANG Ciping even did not graduate from her elementary school, but is still a child prodigy. I did not graduate from high school, I like poetry, I am sort of a literature youth, who is more pessimistic and easy to be sad and sentimental. People said that you already have everything, why do you get sad and sentimental? Ha ha, that is life.
Hu RUI: Your dedication in 2016 was "The wind blows, the river freezes. The hero fights, knowing he will never return!", how tragic and heroic.
Ciping HUANG: In 2012, it was "You died before winning the battle, which made all the heroes cry" to the awardee WANG Donghai, who passed away. In 2011, awardee LIU Di also passed away. (RUI: 2017 to Tang Jingling.) All the laureates are/were in Chinese jails. Liu Di and Wang Donghai died. Liu Xianbin and Huang Qi of Sichuan are still being held in jails. Tang Jingling's award should be officially presented on December 10 this year on Human Rights Day in Washington, USA. His family is in California, and should receive the award on his behalf.
Hu RUI: Who should it be most important to get into the history of the overseas Chinese democracy movement?
Ciping HUANG: Dr. WANG Bingzhang, who founded overseas democracy movement. At that time, he had the opportunity of the right people, the right time, and the right place, as well as the support of Chiang Ching-kuo, which is impossible now. They all are afraid of the Chinese Communist regime.
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Your History and Your Culture
Hu RUI: What are the top three events that you think should be talked about in the history of overseas democracy movements?
Ciping HUANG: One is the protests against the June 4th Massacre. This is very important. The second is the lobbying of the international community. There were also a lot of work done back then in Germany. Dr. QIAN Yuejun did a lot. The Association of Chinese Students and Scientists in Germany, Independent Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars, USA (IFCSS), and myself have all done a lot. Later on, many people withdrew, but many people also insisted and stayed, and including myself have been helping WEI Jingsheng, and Dr. QIAN Yuejun publishes Chinese European Post. If you look at the people of the democracy movement, some of them simply quit, and some have degenerated and changed, even become spokesmen of the Communist regime. The third is to convey information and awaken people inside of China through the freedom overseas.
I live in the United States well, in the way like a fish in the water. China is my motherland, but with terrible environment. I went to China for business before, and I cannot tolerate a lot. There were several times I went to fight with people because the unfair actions they had. I have a very good time in the United States. I am a middle class who is very comfortable and have everything I need. But I want to be in China, because I truly want to help the people there. Some people may express across the line, saying that the Chinese are not worth helping. But if you let me choose the country I want to live for myself, I choose the United States. But I want to do things for China and help the people there. WEI Jingsheng said that when he returns to China, there will not be too many people going back with him. I said, I will go with you, I want to help you.
Hu RUI: Are you slowly reading some Chinese? (HUANG: more English.) You can write a memoir.
Ciping HUANG: I do write a little on and off. I published a few articles on the Internet, including about Ning Bo (the prodigy child who is my college classmate) and the IFCSS, also my experience as a hacker. When I returned to China, I was detained. Those secret police told me, look at DING Jian, who was also a member of IFCSS. But he became the 67th richest man in China. He also participated in the election campaign of IFCSS. After returned China, he chose Xu Gehui, the beautiful anchorwoman of Phoenix TV to be his wife. I was no worse than him. But I told them, Ding Jian made a firewall for you, but I will not even if I have to starve to death. If I want to live a better life, I will not do these things long ago. WEI Jingsheng is the same. (RUI: Is WEI writing a memoir?) There are parts he wrote years ago that are in our safe. I wrote now and then, piece by piece, a little more than ten chapters. I carefully sorted out his writings. I do not have his old photos, but have preserved everything since I have been with him.
Hu RUI: WEI Jingsheng was exclusively granted permission to smoke on important occasions. Where else besides with Prime Minister Kevin Rudd of Australia?
Ciping HUANG: More than that! There was also Jean-Marc Ayrault, the mayor of Nantes, France, who presided over the "World Democracy Forum". Later, he became the French Foreign Affair minister and Prime Minister of France. He took an ashtray to WEI Jingsheng and said that we have not allowed anyone smoking here for many years, but now is an exception -- that is because the city government building is a wooden structure. I said to WEI not to smoke because of the wood structure. But he said that it would be disrespectful if he refused to do so.
Hu RUI: I am very happy that you accepted our interview. Please tell the readers of the Chinese European Post something.
Ciping HUANG: The Chinese European Post is a very good newspaper, with different layers and different angles of politics, culture, economy, etc. It is full of richness and colors. As people who live on this world, we must hold the bottom line of our moral conscience. Actually I do not like politics at all, I prefer science, and am especially interested in mathematics and physics. As a Chinese who lives in a free country, I appreciate freedom and would like to share freedom with the people in China. I think we have to do something for it for our people. Once the Chinese middle class supported the Chinese government and even lacked sympathy to the misery of the "low-end population". But now look at the recent P2P incident, it is really the Communist regime robbing you, to put your money into their pockets. The bureaucratic privileged class in China is not just suppressing the low-end population. As a Chinese, we have to cry out for them and help them. I also hope that we will work together to let all Chinese enjoy the right of democracy and freedom.
Hu RUI: Ok, thank you for accepting the interview with the Chinese European Post.
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(According to the interviews recorded on August 18, 2018, in Düsseldorf, Germany. The interviewee has examined and approved this interview transcript.)
Original prints of this report:
1. HUANG Ciping on Rhine:
2. Calligraphy of the Wei Jingsheng Foundation by Dr. QIAN Yuejun of CEP:
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Wei Jingsheng Foundation News and Article Release Issue: A1184-W812
Release Date: January 20, 2019
Topic: Exclusive Interview with Ciping HUANG: Chinese Should be Able to Enjoy Freedom and Democracy (Published by the November 2018 issue of Chinese European Post)
Original Language Version: Chinese (Chinese version at the end)
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黄：1989年我们成立了英文版《华夏文摘》，China news digest，内容全是英文。我在美国待的前十年间，没讲过几句中文，没写过几个汉字。我们的读者对象是分布在全世界的几万名中国留学生。当时我已经有全职工作，做文摘编辑是业余的，很辛苦。两个礼拜连轴转，每天出一期，要通宵编，才编得完。1990年底全美学自联受苏联最高苏维埃青年委员会主席（是萨哈罗夫的好朋友）邀请，去访问苏联，当时苏联正在崩溃之中。戈尔巴乔夫，叶利钦都在那里，最高苏维埃试图从橡皮图章变成一个真正的人民议会。这次访问很有意思。我写了些短文在英文的《华夏文摘》里。
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通讯地址：Wei Jingsheng Foundation, PO Box 15449, Washington, DC 20003, USA